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Drawar's Next Steps...Future Is Bright

Drawar will become a group blog about design with the great writing that is so missed and loved.

The forums will exist, but starting from scratch and will be invite only. If you can hold a conversation about design and want to engage with others then you will be invited. If you just want to read it will be viewable by all. (Old discussions will still exists, but moved to a sub-domain for posterity)

It will be great. May 3rd launch.

Wish to be a part of the group blog or forums? Shoot me an email and let’s get started (scrivs.gmail).

Questions?

(Had a much longer post for all of this, but why not just get to the point? Right?)

 

Discussion (27)

Here is the original, aka longer version, of the future.

—————-

Two blog posts last month struck me.

For a while now I have been looking at Drawar wondering what should be done. I never got it to where I really wanted mainly because I had no idea where I wanted it to go. While some of it grew organically there were directions that I wasn’t pleased it was going. Eventually I got a job and took a back seat to things. I tried to sell the site twice, but it doesn’t seem to want to leave my hands and before I was a bit annoyed with it, but now I’m at peace with things.

Oh yeah, back to those two blog posts.

When I first started blogging in 2003, it was more for my own enjoyment. Everyone who blogged back then did it to share knowledge and interact with the community. When you got a comment on your site you were happy. When you got 100 visitors in a day you were happy. Blogging was pure enjoyment. Then the traffic junkies came. Then the list posts came. Then the ads came. Blogging stopped being personal and started to become a business. If you weren’t following the trend then your blog became an after thought.

Instead of taking the time to craft an excellent post, people started to ask themselves what was the point if they were only going to get a couple hundred people to read and not make a dime? There was almost a pressure to maintain a blog that performed well instead of a blog that you just enjoyed writing. That isn’t the way it should be and I’m not saying that is the way it is for everyone. Tumblr and Twitter are powerful because they allow people to share their views and what they like without having to put much work into it. Real blogs on the other hand take work and when you have a job and a million other projects going on, the blog is usually the last thing you are concerned about.

This brings me back to Drawar and those two blog posts.

Drawar is turning into a group blog about design. The blog will be filled with small bits of inspiration, quips, quotes, links and essays. It will be more than just my voice. It will be the voice of many designers who wish to share with the world what they love about design, but don’t want to maintain their own blog doing so. A design blog that looks at all varieties of design, not just web. There are enough resources about web development and to be honest that side never really interest me. Design is what gets me going so design is what I’m talking about along with others. The key is getting back to what made Drawar interesting for me and that is thoughtful posts.

Snobs.

What? Oh, what I mean is that the Drawar community is also undergoing a change. The forums are moving over to Vanilla and will be invite only. Unlike other invite systems this one will allow you to get an invite simply by showing that you know and want to engage in some great conversations about design. Doesn’t matter if you actually design or suck at it. As long as you can talk about it with others and respect their opinions then you should be afforded an invite. The reason for this is because being a part of this community is special and there are only so many of us that want to talk about real design with others. As shown in the community a majority of people are content looking at lists and it’s not my job to try and convert them. If they are happy doing that then let them be.

If you don’t really care about joining in on discussions, but love to read what is going on then no worries because it will be viewable by everyone.

What now?

If you are interested in either being part of the blog or the community shoot me an email (scrivs.gmail) and I will extend an invite your way and you can watch while I develop the site live or help get the blog rolling and finding a voice. Always exciting. If you are just emailing me because I said it’s invite only and you want to be cool don’t bother. You love design and want to discuss it in a community that cares about it? Email away.

 

So… your plan to save a withering open community,  is to make it a closed one? That’s more like slowly putting a pillow up on someone’s face, than raising it with your arms cheering.

I think that the articles, if at the level of your previous ones, will help you increase page views significantly, but that will mean very little if you put an invite-only barrier at the front door. When most people want to engage with a community they want to do it instantly. I’d like to think that making it so will help filter out good, from bad, discussions, but it will do so at the expense of an even less active community than we have now.

 

So… your plan to save a withering open community,  is to make it a closed one? That’s more like slowly putting a pillow up on someone’s face

That’s one way of looking at it. But what would you rather read: an undirected collection of loosely tied together posts by anyone who fancies it including those with no proper grasp of the subject, or a collection of relevant, informative and quality articles and posts?

It’s a radical idea, but having been with Drawar from near the beginning I think Scrivs is the man to pull it off.  Personally I think it’s a great idea. Looking forward to launch.

 
 

I have deliberately avoided dribble for two reasons: the first being the one mentioned - that it’s a cliquey and self-congratulatory group of folks (largely) and that as a site it serves little purpose beyond these ends. Secondly, I’m actually a fairly poor designer, so I doubt they’d have me :p

But then you have to compare the aims of dribbble compared to the aims of drawar. Dribble is a sharing site. Share your work with others to receive comments. Drawar is about something a little different. Yes, we are a community, but one that values a challenging discussion rather than a desire to share isolated ideas or snippets out of context.

It’s interesting to see how peoples ideas of what drawar stands for is different to your expectations. The idea of invite-only doesn’t conflict with my own idea of what drawar is. How do you see it being in conflict?

 
 

I really don’t see a problem in this at all. To get an invite, you just need to be able to talk about design. Even if it were an open community there runs the possibility that it can be filled with “fluff” threads - which could inevitably drive a lot of the good discussions out.

I once ran an automotive forum that I envisioned would turn into one filled with very technical and open minded experts that would transform it into a resourceful website for people to learn from - instead it was filled with basic knowledge threads that kept the forum from moving up since nobody understood any of the more technical discussions that did exist.

Say Scrivs keeps it invite only then later opens it up to the community - at least there will be enough content or discussion on there that people joining will get an idea of what is expected. It might not be the perfect strategy but it beats another dead open forum.

 

I have no experience running online communities so I’m not really authorised to comment. But these are my thoughts… :-P

The very essence of an “invite only” community breeds an elitist culture which is what we’ve seen happen at dribbble. By definition you need to meet certain criteria based on totally subjective ideals to earn an invite. It makes me sick when I see people on Twitter saying “I have a dribble invite, show me your best work and I shall judge whether you’re worthy of asking for feedback from the design gods of the dribble community”.

Drawar (to me) is the exact opposite of that. It’s designers from different walks of life, different industries with different skill levels and different ideas discussing that one common passion; design.

One thing dribbbles invite only system certainly doesn’t do is generate interesting discussion. As @notbanksy said it’s all self-congratulatory guff and pedantic “that button is 1px out of place” rubbish.

I’d hate to see a load of un-adventurous, plastic content emerging on Drawar from users more concerned with proving their status as an “approved Drawar member” than they are concerned with bettering themselves as a designer.

The articles I find the most intriguing here are the ones which challenge the way I think about my role as a designer. Stimulating conversations which lead me down enlightening paths.

This post isn’t supposed to be a complete dribbble bash - I’ve had an ok experience using the service myself but know it has a real nasty rep in the community for the reasons mentioned above

 

A design blog that looks at all varieties of design, not just web.

I’m okay with the separation of the blog stuff from a forum for user questions and whatnot. As it is now Drawar is basically a forum++ so it’ll be good to give articles a new platform.

However, if this place turns into another swissmiss I will, sadly, be removing it from Google Reader (yes, people still use RSS). Most of her posts (and many, many other blogs like hers) are simply “look at this picture of a thing I thought looked cool.” Pretty fucking useless, IMO.

 

I think “invite only” systems have taken an unfair knock in the past because people associate them with communities that they might not have been able to get into. I understand the resentment some people have towards Dribbble because they want to participate, but can’t. However, there are other communities in that fashion, LoveDSGN for example, that they can partake in.

My thoughts behind going invite-only are pretty simple. One, I like the psychology of people realizing that they are involved in a community that means to stay focused on great stuff. Drawar community was like that for a while, but as more people jumped in, the discussions became more and more random. The invite only mechanism at the very least lets me put a little control over what is happening at the beginning. We don’t need a 100 new discussions a day, although that would be superb, we just need 1-2 decent ones daily. When it comes down to it invite only is about perception more than anything.

If you can form sentences and wish to talk design then you should have no problem finding an invite.

The group blog aspect involves me and a couple of other designers/lovers of design writing essays and showcasing the different cool things we show on the web. Part Tumblr, part old-school blog if you wish to look at it from modern definitions.

As for a withering community, I wouldn’t be that active in a community where I saw the owner was fading away either, so I take the blame on that one. In the format that I am setting Drawar up in, I still need to remain active, but it allows others to take a hand in the development and future of the site (group blog, forum admins, etc).

Of course this could all be a miserable failure, but I believe in it so I’m going with it.

 
 
 
 
 

I think that the invite only idea is a good one. One of the most annoying things about web design forums is a majority of the posts are people asking the same beginner questions over and over. I don’t have a problem with this because people need to learn somehow. But having a place with experienced designers having discussions would be a nice change.

 
 

Hello again Scrivs. Sorry, but I’m not saving you any sunshine today.

If I didn’t care about the well-being of the community I wouldn’t put so much effort into Drawar. I’m learning right along everyone else and maybe since I have a loud voice I am the one that is looked upon to bring some sort of change which I don’t mind. I wouldn’t bother if I didn’t love the people and the spirit of the community. It really is something to meet and greet with another individual who has a passion for design and can bring new perspectives to your life.

So many wonderful individuals have crossed my path both here and on Twitter and that is rare in most online communities. Most of them are sheltered and only the elite are allowed in, but in the design community you are welcome as long as you bring a friendly attitude with you.

From: http://www.drawar.com/posts/why-i-love-the-design-community#comment-3437

it is time for the new age of designers to get their chance in the spotlight and I hope through the gallery, news and links sections that we all can make that happen.

From: http://www.drawar.com/posts/why-i-am-creating-drawar#comment-2068

It is obvious to me that these are not the goals for the upcoming new version of Drawar. Perhaps they even weren’t the goals for the previous or this current one.

It seems that with every new iteration most of the features that were added to Drawar were to allow more revenue to come in, to set certain kinds of users aside (specifically with the removal of the Critiques section) or to simply boost the number of visitors by keeping the site constantly fresh with new features.

I used to look at Drawar’s redesigns with enthusiasm, I think I was even re-tweeted because I bragged them, but now I see I was wrong. Drawar hasn’t been redesigned 4 or 5 times, it’s been rebooted 4 or 5 times because it lost sight of it’s goals in each of them. With each new revisions changes were brought that went back on his initial goals for the community, I think by now most of his promises have been broken.

We now have 3 ads per page, whereas before advertisers were promised there would only be one visible at all times last year, then that was changed two (In case that text is altered: http://cl.ly/5nWz ). They were also promised some other things, like visitor goals, and a certain number of articles, and we all know the articles commitment was not kept.

Another commitment that was not kept was to the Pro members which, unlike me, supported this site with more than just their words.

We lost the critiques section, which featured both great and not-so-great designs for everyone to discuss. In it’s stead, we were left with a gallery that highlights some of the very best-designed websites. While the quality of the work being submitted to the Critiques section was not at the level of what you find on Dribbble, it was honest and very helpful to many designers, unlike Dribbble. I believe it was at this version that Drawar was closest to meeting Scrivs’ initial public goals: Drawar: Learn by Sharing.

The ability to subscribe to someone’s posts was also lost, together with the ability to give them points, or stars, as a way to promote their content. While small, these features helped increase the level of participation of the site and at least from my impression back then, increased the amount of engagement.

On the next version of Drawar we will have articles written by great designers, that will surely produce great content, but once again, puts the elite on the spotlight, and shoves the rest of the community aside. Those set aside will have to contend with the “exclusive” forums, whose exclusivity adds absolutely nothing to the community, except for a false sense of exclusivity of course. If all you need to get in is to be able to write a sentence, what is the point? Weren’t the Plus-members forums exclusive enough?

I will always go to the community that I feel I relate to the most, and where I feel I can contribute and learn things best, and recently that place was here. But how are we supposed to be loyal to a community site that keeps changing, where words and promises are broken with each new revision?

With this said, pressing the “Leave your killer comment” button has never sounded more adequate than it does now.

 

I live in LA and contrary to what you see in LA there hasn’t been much sunshine since January. I can’t say much in response to your comment because you are going over the history of this site so there are nothing but facts. The site has changed a ton and that was something that was stated would happen from the very beginning through the first live redesign.

Why should you trust that things will work out this time unlike the past? You shouldn’t. I can’t talk about trust until it is proven. As for the group blog I’m hitting up some people that I know, but it’s definitely a chance for anyone to submit what they want. It will showcase essays, great designs, links and other things design.

In essence there isn’t much changed with the core of Drawar, but things will look and feel different. However, if you come here to discuss you will get to discuss. Not everyone will like it and that’s just how the world works.

The great thing about the web though is you can go and create your own community and learn from the mistakes that I have made. However, I need to make sure I’m building something that I can keep up with and fortunately or unfortunately (however you want to look at it), I have had to learn all of these things in front of a gracious community.

The goal will always be to improve, both personally and professionally.

 
 

I’ve tried to avoid jumping in here because I mostly lurk but… come on folks. Maintaining even a small online community is a full-time-plus job. Heck, just fighting spammers can be a full time job sometimes, let alone adding new features or writing new content. Are you paying Scrivs enough to cover a full-time salary to maintain this site for you so he can quit working and spend all his making-a-living time on this site? No. Are you offering to do a substantial amount of the maintenance and design work for the site (and good enough at it so that you’re not just making more work for him by trying to “help”) so that it’s no longer enough work to qualify as an unpaid second full time job for him? Probably not.

So accept that he needs to do with this site whatever he needs to do with it to make it fit into whatever time (or lack of time) he can afford to devote to it. That means that hoped-for new features may not materialize. If they don’t, and you’re that bent out of shape about it, offer to build the new feature yourself. Don’t have time? Well, he probably didn’t either or those features would have been added, don’t you think? If an existing feature is taking up too much time to maintain and moderate (because let me tell you, all content generated by users gets moderated if you don’t want the site overrun by spam and flame wars, regardless of how nice and peaceable the _main_ users are) or is literally costing too much because of fees on bandwidth or storage, it has to get axed, or someone else has to take it over.

Speaking from personal experience, getting someone else to help or take over a part of a community is a losing proposition more often than not. Even those with good intentions eventually just stop doing it because it’s too much work, and then it falls back to whoever is ultimately “in charge”. Not always; sometimes you’ll get someone who really helps, otherwise the largest communities would never have gotten big. But that’s the exception—and even the exceptions can fall ill, have a car accident, die, lose their job and therefore their internet access, decide they’re going to leave and start their own site or community, a whole host of things that can take them out of the loop temporarily or permanently (and yes, I’ve dealt with losing people to all of those things). So, when planning a site, the main administrator has to look at it with an eye toward what they can handle on the site if everything falls back to them to do all at once.

I suspect that making the site invite-only but the criteria for acceptance very basic is a move to limit registrations by spammers and scammers and people who aren’t interested in contributing. I could be wrong. I’m just going on the fact that I am currently considering doing the same thing on my guild’s site because I’m spending five to ten hours a week just on fighting spam, and that site’s not much bigger than this one. That’s time I’m not spending on making things better or bigger or more featurey. That’s time spent just treading water to keep things in the same place. And if that’s not the main reason for moving to invites here, it’s still a benefit of doing so, still time that’ll be freed up to devote to making the site better or bigger.

If you want something to be closer to your vision of it, you need to offer to help with the work that will take it the direction you want. If you’re not willing to do the work, that means you expect someone else to do it for you. Do you really think that’s either fair or likely? If you see something wrong, the answer is “How can I fix it?” not “I’m gonna kvetch til someone else fixes it.”

 

I have to agree with Griffith.  It seems like Drawar has gone into something simple and great (Scrivs’ excellent posts + comments + forum) turned into something too big and unmanageable (Scrivs excellent posts + comments + forum + critiques + gallery + 2 other websites + Pro membership + monthly contests + tutorials) and now into something that isn’t special at all (forum + gallery).

I used to post a lot.  I also am a former Drawar Pro member.

I don’t think this site needs an invite only forum.  Frankly, too much emphasis has been placed on the idea of community rather than content.  A community will come and participate if the owner of this site is committed and is putting out good content.  This will lead to insightful comments on the articles and as an expansion - discussion and discourse in a forum.  If that doesn’t happen, there is nothing that separates this forum from any other forum online (invite or otherwise).

With that said, I’ll keep checking in and look forward to a bright future.  I also hold no ill will towards Scrivs.  I’m well aware that running a site is a full time job and he simply might not have the time anymore.  That’s understandable and fair.

 
 

I really do not see a problem with the future plans for the site.  To me it will bring the following:

1. Order
2. Quality Posts
3. Filtering

The one thing I think that people are missing form your post @Scrivs is that you said discussions would be open for public viewing but only folks who have been invited to be part of the discussion will be able to add to it.  Seems pretty democratic to me.  Why is everyone so pissed??

 
 

Am in there with Griffiths to some extent - I never paid for anything but remember remarking to my wife (talking about Drawar) “You can’t take people’s money and not only fail to deliver, but also actually remove stuff!”

I loved the original site, but if Scrivs ain’t got the time then fair-enough. And I don’t think there’s been any dishonesty, just a lot of learning on his part which, combined with not having a plan, has meant things keep changing.

The invite-only idea might work. Why not? If others can view the site anyway and Scrivs is not too exclusive with his invites, it could be useful quality control.

 

Sorry, I don’t have time to read all the comments on this post, so apologies if I repeat what others have already said.

The new Drawar sounds interesting, and I think the move is necessary. I loved Drawar back when it began, when it was a blog with a bold voice.

The current ‘community’ approach I’m not such a fan of. While I think there are some great discussions, I would prefer more focus. In other words, I would prefer a blog to a forum.

From the sounds of things we will be getting both, which is a win-win.

 

To be honest, all of this is confusing, but all of it sounds good.

I’m not sure what is going to happen precisely. Who can write posts, who can comment? Is the forum open to outsiders as read-only, but can anyone comment on the blog? It’s closed, but not very because anyone can apply?

Who cares.

I’m glad Scrivs is not letting go. Does he have a clear view of what’s going to happen, what the goals and targets are? Maybe not, but he’s offering everyone a chance to be involved and contribute. That’s more than I ever did.

Sure, I paid for a pro membership and indeed did not see much in return. I’m sure Scrivs won’t forget. I was invited for the beta6, and I’ll try to engage. Other than that, I still feel most comfortable here than anywhere else and I’ve met a couple of very interesting folks here so far.

Guess I’m in for it. How it pans out is up to all of us.

 

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